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Amazing how all you folks who show up in my replies to say humanity is the disease and a lotta folks have to die because "climate" are never the ones offering to do the dying.
There's enough planet for a whole lot of people; there isn't enough for capitalism to continue. If you're high on Malthusianism, you're not a leftist, you'll make a great fascist some day, and we're not gonna be friends.
Also: batting just about zero with Church of the Subgenius branded accounts recently. Can't say I'm surprised.
@AnarchoNinaWrites
Something weird happened with that group in the early 00s. It went from haha wouldn't it be funny if we were a silly cult to you know our cult leader has some excellent points and picking out the crazy seems like too much effort...
@Gigi@kolektiva.socialCounter:
There is absolutely a way to calculate a logarithmic value that expresses how much better the world would be without a particular person.
Logarithmic like the Richter scale.
Where Karl Rove is probably a 8, Dick Cheney is probably t̶h̶e̶ s̶a̶m̶e̶a bit higher.
Going to be a combination of past track record of evil doing, their reach, how much money they have; basically how much damage, death, and destruction you can actually do and inspire.
You may notice who I'm picking off as opposed to the average Joe.
@Gigi naw this was more like "if we cut off oil all industry and agriculture would collapse and the human population would decline rapidly but at least the natural world would have a chance" bullshit
I can literally produce study after study after study showing it's a misallocation of our collective resources to capitalist pursuits and the activities of a wealthy ruling class driving this phenomenon, but some folks just wanna believe billions of ppl gotta get perished to "save a pristine world"
@Gigi Which is funny, because there's nazis arguing the same thing. But some of these folks call themselves "leftists."
@Gigi Pretty sure that if we lived in societies devoting their efforts to the problem of sustainably feeding 8B+ people, instead of marshalling their brightest minds to "make line go up" we'd be in a better place on that front. But again, some people just REALLY wanna believe a whole lotta innocent people have to die for "nature" - not them, never them, but nameless "people" - usually billions of them. I ain't here for it.
@Gigi@kolektiva.socialThe big thing that everybody wants to ignore is that the fastest way to get women to produce fewer children is to let them participate equally in society.
I just wish the society at hand wasn't a capitalist hellhole.
@Gigi@kolektiva.socialThe other big thing that nobody wants to say out loud is that what they MEAN is they need to figure out how to get THOSE WOMEN not to have kids.
White women, on the other hand, should have more children.
@Gigi For sure, but again, overpopulation as they often call it is not the main or even one of the main drivers of climate crisis. Now industrial farming IS a driver, but it's also not the only way we can feed people - it's the way we do it profitably. 100 companies are responsible for 71% of emissions. Rich people, cruise ships, the US military all much more serious drivers of this issue than population is.
Let's get rid of those and spend our resources feeding ppl sustainably first.
@Gigi lol, sorry, I was typing away. My bad. It's just a discussion I get into a lot and it makes me buggy when people just repeat this shit. My bad.
@Gigi@kolektiva.socialYeah. I used to run around saying "people are the problem bird flu is the answer" (or at least I did prior to the nightmare that is covid), but the problem people I'm talking about are highly unlikely to be the same people your discussants are talking about.
In fact, they're probably your discussants.
@Gigi When people say "the planet cannot support this many people" the part they're leaving out, even scientists, is "and keep capitalism."
So arguing that it would be better if billions die based on those metrics, is more or less conceding the space to Malthusianism - a reactionary, objectively fascist ideology.
@Gigi And again, and I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here, but it's important to point out that the people saying this "too many people" junk are literally NEVER talking about themselves. They and their families/loved ones/communities are NEVER the "too many people." It's always some other people, far away. And it will not surprise YOU I'm sure, to hear that these other, "too many people" who must not be are typically NOT white westerners living in the Imperial Core.
Funny that...
@Gigi@kolektiva.socialLOL!
What I was typing as you were sending this says that we are definitely each preaching to the choir.
@Gigi lol, indeed. I'm sorry; the discussion just makes me cranky for the reasons we've both explained.
@Gigi@kolektiva.socialYep.
I get it.
@AnarchoNinaWrites bill gates is classic example of Malthusian pushing his eugenics through a veneer of philanthropy in Africa
@virtualinanity @AnarchoNinaWrites I would like to know more, since all I can find from credible sources are corporatized farming practices and debunked anti-vax rumors.
@Vorsos @virtualinanity He's repeatedly talked about overpopulation and the need to slow population growth through increased access to vaccination and contraception.
Which I mean I support those things ofc, but I object to the premise that overpopulation is a legitimate problem unless what you're talking about is keeping capitalism.
But there's a whole TED talk about it; the fash have translated that to "Bill Gates said 3B people need to die" - no he didn't, but he is pushing "overpopulation."
@Vorsos @virtualinanity Fwiw, I think this podcast goes into it a bit, but I can't get timestamps because I no longer have a Soundcloud account:
@AnarchoNinaWrites @virtualinanity Gotcha. Yeah, I want everyone to have free vaccine and contraceptive access too. Last I knew, Earth can currently produce enough food for 11 billion people, and more if vertical farming takes off. So I get it now that ‘overpopulation’ framing is a distraction at best; the root problem of “having more kids than you can afford to feed” is capitalism’s artificial scarcity / unequal distribution for profit.
@Vorsos @virtualinanity Right, precisely, we are 100% in agreement on all of these points.
Also, let's be clear - Gates is not the only "liberal" billionaire pushing Malthusianism; this is a mainstream position in the world of Western Philanthropy.
All I'm saying is that these people are pushing this argument as a way to protect capitalism, and that doing so ultimately LEADS to genocides. As I said in the thread, once you agree the problem is "too many ppl" all bets are off re: "solutions"
@Vorsos For reference, this is the thread I mean:
https://jorts.horse/@AnarchoNinaWrites/113545292866716464
I'm not at all saying Bill Gates is arguing for the extermination of billions of people, or even that the work his foundation does is bad because "kills babies" or something reactionary like that.
What I am saying is that his justification for it is Malthusian propaganda, which in turn is A) about protecting capitalism and B) greases the tracks for genocides, in a very predictable way.
Overpopulation is a trash idea.
@AnarchoNinaWrites @virtualinanity Thanks for connecting the dots for me, in this situation of billionaire doing some good things for the wrong reasons.
To be clear, I have zero approval of Gates in any capacity (CEO, billionaire, controlling philanthropist). Taxing him more wouldn’t solve this either, as we know where taxes go. The ideal solution seems go all the way down to not letting a capitalist empire exploit Africa in the first place.
@AnarchoNinaWrites its super weird how every white person I knew spouting this n that about global overpopulation has a few kids now
like desperately complaining about how many people there are, and then they directly made more.
a real headscratcher who theyre thinking about with 'global population'
@AnarchoNinaWrites anyone who advocates killing people to save the planet but doesn't start with the people with yachts and private jets is parroting fascists, because we all know who they mean, and it's not the ones causing the problem.
Free Palestine @Sine_Nomine@mstdn.social@AnarchoNinaWrites
4.8Bn hectares worldwide used for agriculture
8.2Bn world population
Permaculture food production needs 4 acres / family of 4
At current rates above, 2.4 acres are available to each person. We have a buffer of 1.4 acres
As many have noted, population is not the issue, hoarding of wealth is
#DeathToTyrants #deathtobillionaires #mathusianbullshit
#DeathToCapitalsm