the reason it’s almost impossible for people who grew up during 9/11 to take it seriously is that for many of us the patriotic protonationalistic fervor was the first hint that The Adults were Not Okay and that there was some kind of sick corruptive force deep inside american society
@hasya23 for some people like myself it was the first real instance on disenchantment with America. We were taught for so long that we'd do the right thing because we Are The Good Guys and it justified a lot of terrible shit that was not what we were taught our country was. Lies, tortures, human rights violations, twisting of the constitution, all under the banner of patriotism. They stole my faith in my country and destroyed hope that it could ever be better.
it’s pretty depressing once you find out that our country is actually the bad guys
I mean I was always a skeptic of the system, but 9-11 tought me to be more distrustful of general people. That's why I believe to this day W and all the people who were advising him should be hung. They whipped it all up purposely to get their forever wars and cost countless lives.
@Red @hasya23 That was me to a point, though my disillusionment began about a decade earlier. I just remember thinking (after the initial shock wore off a bit,) that yeah we kinda had something like that coming. Our government had spread so much violence and misery into the world that something like that was inevitable.
And I also am old enough to remember the first attack on the WTC, so it was clearly a symbol for US imperialism around the world.
@hasya23 i was 18. there is only so many times a horror can be used to justify abuse, torture, war, etc before you have to just make a mockery of what that symbol has become. they made it a joke by treating it like a circus
@hasya23 in for a real treat when all the grownups had that New Church Vibe only for nationalism
@hasya23 this, a lot. I was an iconoclastic weirdo kid already but shortly after it happened I saw all the flags and Official Responses and I was like... “wait, this was a terrible tragedy, but this really doesn’t feel like the way to respond to it, shouldn’t we all be thinking about why some people got so upset at us that they would do such a thing?”
re: 9/11, sincere
@hasya23 God, so incredibly true. I was in fifth grade.
Adults kept responding in this weirdly... villainous way. Like, everyone was all "this country is unquestionably perfect," after it happened, yeah. But they were also so fucking obsessed with killing people in retribution. "You poked the bear, son!!"
We were fucking gleeful to have an enemy.
I'm old and I've read a lot of science fiction. Not the something-punk we see a lot of these days, but older stuff from back before it was accepted that we would always be living in a dystopia.
As soon as 9-11 happened, I was pissed. I knew that whatever allowed it to happen, (which we have found to be negligence on the part of the CIA and FBI), it would be used by the government to convince the public to give away our rights.
The USA-PATRIOT act was quickly passed. We still don't have some of the rights we gave away.
It was the only thing that allowed Dubya to come close to winning that second term. He _really_ needed some sort of publicly supported armed conflict because prior to that he was well-hated.
Look at when The Handmaid's Tale, Fahrenheit 451, or 1984 were written. The seeds of the corruption we're seeing are old enough that they could be foreseen decades ago... if they're not as old as humanity itself.
@hasya23 the first couple days were normal grieving behavior but, the second people found out it was brown people from a nonchristrian society, the "weather report in Afghanistan" "jokes" started and even as a teen I knew that nuking a country was not an appropriate response to anything
@hasya23 I remember very briefly sort of getting swept up in the emotion of it all but once people started targeting all muslims and just brown skinned people in general that was enough to make me see what was happening and what was going to continue to happen and it made me mad.
It was all cemented during the Iraq invasion built on lie after lie after lie. After that there was never a chance of me being anything but a liberal to leftist to whatever I am now.
Re: 9/11, sincere
@hasya23 I wrote, like, an essay about this recently. It was definitely the moment when I noticed (at age 10) that something was extremely wrong with American culture
@hasya23 at 28 & just weeks from the end of my own human rights case in a supreme court, i felt caught, as i often have, between zealous post-WWII yt boomers & kids who lacked perspective just yet
that perspective — the U.S. were baddies — started for me in ’79 w/ Iran; ’80 w/ Reagan; ’86 w/ Libya; ’88 w/ Iran flight 655; ’90 & ’91 w/ bellicose threats over oil; ’91 w/ Paul Broussard; ’92 w/ LAPD acquittals; ’93 w/ Brandon Teena; & ’98 w/ James Byrd Jr.
when 9/11 went down, i was unsurprised
@patience @hasya23 from outside (I watched it on TV with the rest of my office in London) every reaction from the US seemed strange, though we felt a lot of solidarity. As the years went on it got more, I don't know, uncomfortably strange? There was a sense of shock at first, then cynicism and the inevitably of things being twisted for political gain.
@moopet @hasya23 for about four days, peaking around the third day in the U.S. city where i lived, literally everyone treated each other stunningly gentle & kind. literal strangers sat down & gently listened to other strangers in public spaces
it obviously didn’t last. by day 4 or 5, early online memes, like the "WTC rebuild proposal" of four replacement towers in the original style, looking like they were giving the finger, started appearing, and terrorist attacks on local mosques began
@hasya23 I was 20 & saw the second tower go down on the TV in one of the lounges in the dorm I was in. Later that day I saw people in their cars lining up to get gas because for some reason an attack in NYC would cause a fuel shortage in Cedar Falls, IA according to these people (didn't happen). Days later there was a board with messages people could write about it. The most prominent was "Load 'em up, they're going down!" This was at a university, too.
Unstoppable shitposting engine.