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Amazing how all you folks who show up in my replies to say humanity is the disease and a lotta folks have to die because "climate" are never the ones offering to do the dying.
There's enough planet for a whole lot of people; there isn't enough for capitalism to continue. If you're high on Malthusianism, you're not a leftist, you'll make a great fascist some day, and we're not gonna be friends.
@Gigi@kolektiva.socialCounter:
There is absolutely a way to calculate a logarithmic value that expresses how much better the world would be without a particular person.
Logarithmic like the Richter scale.
Where Karl Rove is probably a 8, Dick Cheney is probably t̶h̶e̶ s̶a̶m̶e̶a bit higher.
Going to be a combination of past track record of evil doing, their reach, how much money they have; basically how much damage, death, and destruction you can actually do and inspire.
You may notice who I'm picking off as opposed to the average Joe.
@Gigi naw this was more like "if we cut off oil all industry and agriculture would collapse and the human population would decline rapidly but at least the natural world would have a chance" bullshit
I can literally produce study after study after study showing it's a misallocation of our collective resources to capitalist pursuits and the activities of a wealthy ruling class driving this phenomenon, but some folks just wanna believe billions of ppl gotta get perished to "save a pristine world"
@Gigi Which is funny, because there's nazis arguing the same thing. But some of these folks call themselves "leftists."
@Gigi Pretty sure that if we lived in societies devoting their efforts to the problem of sustainably feeding 8B+ people, instead of marshalling their brightest minds to "make line go up" we'd be in a better place on that front. But again, some people just REALLY wanna believe a whole lotta innocent people have to die for "nature" - not them, never them, but nameless "people" - usually billions of them. I ain't here for it.
@Gigi@kolektiva.socialThe big thing that everybody wants to ignore is that the fastest way to get women to produce fewer children is to let them participate equally in society.
I just wish the society at hand wasn't a capitalist hellhole.
@Gigi@kolektiva.socialThe other big thing that nobody wants to say out loud is that what they MEAN is they need to figure out how to get THOSE WOMEN not to have kids.
White women, on the other hand, should have more children.
@Gigi For sure, but again, overpopulation as they often call it is not the main or even one of the main drivers of climate crisis. Now industrial farming IS a driver, but it's also not the only way we can feed people - it's the way we do it profitably. 100 companies are responsible for 71% of emissions. Rich people, cruise ships, the US military all much more serious drivers of this issue than population is.
Let's get rid of those and spend our resources feeding ppl sustainably first.
@Gigi lol, sorry, I was typing away. My bad. It's just a discussion I get into a lot and it makes me buggy when people just repeat this shit. My bad.
@Gigi@kolektiva.socialYeah. I used to run around saying "people are the problem bird flu is the answer" (or at least I did prior to the nightmare that is covid), but the problem people I'm talking about are highly unlikely to be the same people your discussants are talking about.
In fact, they're probably your discussants.
@Gigi When people say "the planet cannot support this many people" the part they're leaving out, even scientists, is "and keep capitalism."
So arguing that it would be better if billions die based on those metrics, is more or less conceding the space to Malthusianism - a reactionary, objectively fascist ideology.
@Gigi And again, and I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here, but it's important to point out that the people saying this "too many people" junk are literally NEVER talking about themselves. They and their families/loved ones/communities are NEVER the "too many people." It's always some other people, far away. And it will not surprise YOU I'm sure, to hear that these other, "too many people" who must not be are typically NOT white westerners living in the Imperial Core.
Funny that...
@Gigi@kolektiva.socialLOL!
What I was typing as you were sending this says that we are definitely each preaching to the choir.
@Gigi lol, indeed. I'm sorry; the discussion just makes me cranky for the reasons we've both explained.
@Gigi@kolektiva.socialYep.
I get it.